Question asked on Yahoo Answers...showing how God and His Word are misaligned!

[Christine]

THIS IS the QUESTION asked:


Are non-Jews dogs or not?

THESE are the additional comments plus the scripture taken OUT of context that this person used  to try and prove his  point!

Jesus was defeated by the woman's wisdom:

"A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, 'Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession. Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.' He [Jesus] answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.' The woman came and knelt before him. 'Lord, help me!' she said. He [Jesus] replied 'It is not right to take the children's [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Gentiles].' 'Yes, Lord' she said, 'but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.' Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.' And her daughter was healed from that very hour. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 15:22-28)"

It's funny how Jesus supposedly in the book of the New Testament, instantaneously ABROGATED his views and decision about the non-Jewish woman and people in general being equivalent to dogs when compared to the Jews. It is important to note that the woman, in this corrupted book, from the very start showed that she is a "believer" (what ever that meant back then). So it wasn't a matter of a "disbeliever" or pagan seeking Jesus' help.

The woman's wisdom defeated Jesus, the so-called "Creator of the Universe"! Jesus, within a second, changed his racist and trash-mouthed views against her from being a "dog" to a human being who deserves to be helped.



"I was sent ONLY to..." clearly and irrefutably means that Jesus initially claimed that he wasn't sent to other than the Jews!

 
Your views on this



   
      My answer from the truth of Gods Word:

      Good try, but you missed the Bibles explanation for what occurred here. Jesus wasn't "defeated by the woman's wisdom" at all!

      In times PAST, gentiles WERE considered "dogs", and this woman KNEW and UNDERSTOOD that "salvation was of the JEWS" and that Gods plan THEN was to save all nations thru BELIEVING Israel. Israel was to believe FIRST, and then become Gods channel of blessing to the rest of the world.

      The canaanite woman understood this plan and purpose of God, as is evidenced by her statement, and was letting God know she saw Israel as the channel of blessing and would be content with crumbs that fell from THEIR masters table. Since she understood Gods plan and purpose to go to the JEW FIRST, her request was granted.

      In His earthly ministry Jesus WAS "sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel." He was born under the law and taught the law of Moses in His ministry on earth. Jesus had a TWO FOLD ministry that encompassed the two realms which He created, and had the right to rule over: ie: Heaven AND the earth (see Gen. 1:1) In His ministry on the earth, He taught and lived the law of Moses.This was JUDAISM, not Christianity.

      What most professing believers today do not acknowledge or understand is that after Jesus rose from the dead and ascended, He was still giving instructions for mankind but they had CHANGED. Peter and the 12 faded OUT , while Gods appointed apostle to we, who are the church which is His BODY (the two, jew and gentile, made ONE) faded IN. The entire book of ACTS shows this TRANSITION from Judaism to Christianity; from Peter to Paul; from law to GRACE. God changed programs and SET ISRAEL aside temporarily to bring in the dispensation of the GRACE of God as the means of salvation in this present age.

      The woman DID believe in the God of the Jews. Paul had not yet been raised up by God, and Christianity had not yet begun. It was still a "SECRET", and "HID IN GOD" until God raised up PAUL TO BE IT'S MINISTER.

      So, please don't pretend to understand the God of the Universe when you haven't studied His Word to see that the explanations are all there. We are told HOW to correctly read and understand His Word in 2 Tim. 2:15 where it says "to STUDY to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that doesn't need to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word of TRUTH."

      This means we don't take scripture OUT of context to try and prove that which isn't supported by comparing scripture WITH scripture.

      In His earthly ministry, Jesus wasn't confused, and neither were the JEWS. They WERE His chosen people in times PAST to be the channel of blessing to the rest of the world. This was called "the gospel of the circumcision."

      Because of UNBELIEF, God has set the Nation Israel aside as that channel of blessing and has initiated a NEW program (ie: Christianity), NOT based on the law of Moses , but on GRACE, and has made the two (Jew and Gentile) into ONE. This gospel is called the "gospel of the GRACE of God", or the "gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION. The two are NOT the same!

      There is NO distinction today , and Israel has no distinction in this present age of Grace. She is "lo Ammi", which means "not my people." * NOTE: God will again resume His program with Israel in "ages to come"...AFTER this "time of the gentiles is fulfilled" and we are raptured to be with OUR LORD IN THE AIR.

      No one defeats the Creator of the Universe! Not even we in our ignorance. He has told us in His Word how the pieces of the puzzle all fit.

      Jesus wasn't being racist or trash mouthed, and wasn't being unkind to the woman. It WAS a known fact , and SHE Understood it, that salvation was to the JEW FIRST, and then to the gentile nations. This is WHY Jesus answered her request! No one was offended at this order of events.

      It is you who doesn't understand how God dealt with the world in times PAST.

      I hope this helps you understand better, so as NOT to misrepresent Gods plan and purpose, OR His character, to others.

[Christine]

Interesting exchange here....

[Roofdad]

Hi, Christine..... thought I would refresh this thread a little. Also show you a sample of what I tell those folks over there..... just to maake sure I am not giving wrong info, you know? Check my work here, mom!

Here is the question:

Question for fundamental Christians.......?
How many people in the US do you think are TRULY saved/Christians?

(not catholic)

Do you think a lot of people call themselves Christians, but are deceived? The Bible says the path is narrow ...and few find it.


Here is the answer that I gave her, in my understanding of what I have learned:

Yes. Many are deceived. Christ said that many would say, in that day, Lord, we have cast out devils in your name, we have healed in your name; and He would tell them to depart from Him, because he never knew them. The Lord was speaking about people that really thought that they could do these things, because of a failure to read and study the word of God; to know that God set these things aside. Speaking in tongues, healing, casting out of devils...........ALL of these SIGNS were a part of the Kingdom program of the nation Israel, which God judged and set aside for the unbelief of the people, in Acts 28:28.
In the present dispensation of the grace of God, these things are no longer in operation. Even Paul, who was at one time filled with the Holy Ghost, and healed MANY, and even raised at least one man from the dead (Acts 20), could NOT even heal his own brothers in Christ, in Philippians 2:26, 27, and 2 Tim. 4:20. If Paul was still able to, and these things were still possible, he WOULD have healed these beloved brothers! He COULDN'T.

That does not stop churches from trying. That does not stop cult churches from handling poisonous snakes. That does not stop churches from following the wrong gospel.
The information in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John does not save. It is STILL OT teachings, i.e. the Gospel of the Kingdom. That gospel no longer saves. We can not attempt to follow Christ in the flesh.

The church of God today is the Body of Christ. Our apostle is Paul. Our gospel is the Gospel of the Grace of God, given to Paul by the risen Lord Jesus Christ. It is the RISEN Christ that we MUST follow.
That does not stop churches from teaching that we must keep the commandments. That does not stop churches from teaching that we must have works, as well as faith. That does not stop the church people from seeking their own righteousness. From being judgmental of others.

Do you know how many people reject the Gospel of the Grace of God, in favor of believing in a false salvation of works, such as Catholic sacraments? Paul preached the simplicity of Christ. That ain't it.

Many many people deceived. Failure to rightly divide the word of truth, as directed to do in 2 Tim. 2:15.

The books of Paul are from Romans to Philemon. They contain the Gospel given to Paul by the risen Christ. HE is the apostle chosen by the risen Lord Jesus to give His Gospel to the Body of Christ. If one is attempting to follow any other doctrine, he is deceived.


Did I do OK??

[Christine]

Hey Darryl,

You did very well, Darryl. I am amazed that you are learning so much so fast. You have probably figured out by now that you have just unearthed the tip of the iceberg. The more I learn the more I realize I didn't know....LOL

 As you continue learning, you will fine tune your answers and find yourself giving more precise answers with less information. I know that being new to right division, we ALL have the tendency to give ALL the information we know in an answer, while really not answering the question that was asked at all...I do it, you will do it, its a part of learning how to be a good communicator and of understanding the issues.

Until folks can SEE that there is definitely a difference between Peters gospel and Pauls gospel then all the information we give them on right division will go right over their heads.  We always should let people know that the gospel preached by Peter isn't saving anyone today. Repent and be water baptized, or Believe in the name of Jesus, or walk the aisle or surrender your heart to God, are NOT biblical admonitions to US, and the last two are not biblical at all. Use every opportunity to let them know what the good news IS for today.

Calling oneself a christian is kind of a misnomer today. Everyone who isn't a jew calls himself a christian...right? LOL

Everyone who goes to church calls themself a christian, don't they? Ooops.

Being in a church doesn't make one a believer/christian anymore than being in a barn makes one a horse.

We need to begin with the understanding of just what MAKES someone a christian? Every other church on the block has a different answer and no one is going to the Bible to see what GOD says. See what I mean?

Those who don't understand right division need to be shown what the gospel of OUR salvation is, and how it differs from salvation as offered to Israel in times Past and ages to come. Until they understand that they may have trusted in "another gospel and another jesus" (the Kingdom gospel given by Christ during His earthly ministry) they will never see the right division truths we learn thru study.

Just something to think about as you share...focus on what gospel did THEY believe to be saved? The only gospel saving anyone today is that which is found in Pauls epistles. The churches today are not only deceiving, THEY THEMSELVES are deceived. They are following the traditions of MEN and not Gods prescribed manner of approaching Him today.

I have a suggested reading for ya...and you should have this book in your library anyway. Order it online at Amazon, or at www.bereanbiblesociety.com

THINGS THAT DIFFER by CR STAM is easy reading, excellently written, and you can re read it every six months or so and learn something totally new.  It is the book I read that led me to right division and helps us to see how to deal with these issues from scripture. I am always amazed anew at the insight this man had and how edified I am after reading his words.

So...thats your homework assignment for the week , Darryl. Get the book...its in paperback....begin reading and then we will discuss it right here on the forum...whaddaya say, oh brother of mine?

[NewDawn]

Good post you two!!  I am going to get that book myself. .  I know you mentioned that to me already Christine, but forgot.   

I do the same thing.  I need to fine tune how I say things as well, but I know that will come in time.  The more I understand and learn, the more my speech will improve.   

Hugs to you All!

[Roofdad]

You "guys" are great! It ALWAYS make me feel good to come here, and talk to my sisters and brothers in Christ! Thank you, Christine...... I will get that book. Probably from the Berean Bible Society, since I study from their site a lot, anyway, and now get the Berean Searchlight, monthly.
It seems strange to me...... the Berean Bible Society seems to proceed from the POV that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. I disagree with that, mainly because in every epistle of Paul's, he identifies himself at the very beginning of each letter. The author of Hebrews does not. Also, the writing style of Hebrews seems to be an Alexandrian style, which is not Paul's style.
Paul always mentions his firsthand revelation from Christ. The author of Hebrews places himself among second-generation Christians.
One of my Bibles has a little history before each book, and it says that among the men mentioned by name in the NT, Luke's description of Apollos in Acts 18:24 through 28, most perfectly fits the profile of the author of Hebrews........... things that make you go Hmmmmmm........


Thanks for the birthday wishes, Christine!!!

[Christine]

You "guys" are great! It ALWAYS make me feel good to come here, and talk to my sisters and brothers in Christ! Thank you, Christine...... I will get that book. Probably from the Berean Bible Society, since I study from their site a lot, anyway, and now get the Berean Searchlight, monthly.
It seems strange to me...... the Berean Bible Society seems to proceed from the POV that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. I disagree with that, mainly because in every epistle of Paul's, he identifies himself at the very beginning of each letter. The author of Hebrews does not. Also, the writing style of Hebrews seems to be an Alexandrian style, which is not Paul's style.
Paul always mentions his firsthand revelation from Christ. The author of Hebrews places himself among second-generation Christians.
One of my Bibles has a little history before each book, and it says that among the men mentioned by name in the NT, Luke's description of Apollos in Acts 18:24 through 28, most perfectly fits the profile of the author of Hebrews........... things that make you go Hmmmmmm........


Thanks for the birthday wishes, Christine!!!

Yes....Happy Happy Birthday, Darryl!!

While many of the wonderful grace sites that we endorse here do not exactly believe ALL the same things when it comes to side issues, on the main points of docttrine we can find much to fellowship over. I don't happen to believe that Paul wrote Hebrews either and for many of the same reasons you posted, but that does not keep us from learning from the book or growing in grace, thank the Lord!

When you get the book, let me know as you begin reading and we can do a study together on here and discuss the things we are learning...hows that? You will be thrilled with it, I'm sure.

Have a great evening dear brother.....you are a joy to our hearts!

[NewDawn]

Happy Birthday Darryl!!!!  Hope you had a wonderful day!!