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Let's Talk Turkey........
Does God Heal Today?
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Topic: Does God Heal Today? (Read 6943 times)
Oasis
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #15 on:
May 02, 2008, 08:36:09 PM »
The following is a portion of the study I mentioned on another board.
Quote:
There is much we can learn about the Holy Spirit and Spiritual gifts. I never gave it much thought up until a few years ago, when my study intensified out of concern for the abuse of the gifts I coninually see around me. I think it's important to understand the Biblical definition and application of these gifts; who they were given to; qualifications of the user; why some were temporary and some permanent; qualifications for an Apostle and prophet; etc...
I believe miracles are one of the most, if not the most abused gift there is. What is the Biblical definition of a miracle? "I got that job! It's a miracle!" That is not a Biblical miracle...or you'll hear, "We won the game! It was an absolute miracle!" It's a word that is thrown around much too casually. So, what is a miracle? Well, I've found several different definitions depending on one's particular faith or lack thereof. But among the different religious definitions there runs one common thread. It is a supernatural intervention that has no other explanation than that God is acting. It is obvious that only God could be responsible for it.
Why does God do miracles? I believe Scripture tells us it is to confirm He is who He says He is, and to confirm His revelation to us. Miracles were used to confirm the identity and deity of Jesus Christ.
"This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him."-John 2:11 NIV
"...for the very works that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me."-John 5:36 NIV
"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."John 20:30-31 NIV
I believe Scripture teaches that some of the gifts were permanent and some temporary. Miracles are one of the temporary gifts. Now, what do I mean by that? Look at the limited history of its use. In the Old Testament there was God revealing the law to Moses, and God using Elijah and Elishah to establish His prophetic revelation. In the New Testament, miracles came through Jesus Christ, the Apostles, and those they personally commissioned. We see in Scripture that Jesus did miracles to prove His identity as Messiah and God. The Apostles were also given the ability to perform miracles and for a very important reason. It was to verify their preaching. There was, as of yet, no written Word, so these men were God's mouthpiece and the miracles were given to verify the identity of Christ and the Truth that the Apostles, and those they personally commissioned, taught.
"The things that mark an apostle--signs, wonders and miracles--were done among you with great perseverence."-2 Corinthians 12:12 NIV
"How shall we excape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will"-Hebrews 2:3-4 NIV
...and what was his will? to confirm His revelation through Jesus Christ and these apostles. If we claim that miracles still occur today, and yet agree with Scripture that miracles were used to confirm God's revelation to man, then we are saying that the Bible is incomplete. Once God's revelation was complete, the purpose for miracles was done. I'm not saying that God can't and won't do miracles. I'm saying that Scripture teaches that they were used as sign gifts for a specific period of time and for the specific purpose of confirming revelation. It's important to note that miracles will come into use one more time in history. When?
"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees nad the two lamplstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."-Revelation 11:3-6 NIV
One interesting thing I've learned in reading is that for years after the New Testament Church was established no miracles appeared...until the beginning of Roman Catholicism. All the sudden they were everywhere. Hmmmmm??? I guess God was showing the Roman church was the one true church and they would present His new revelation, huh? I don't think so. But check out some of these that were claimed by the Roman Catholics.
* In 415 the bones of Stephen were found. The bones were moved to Africa, and everywhere they went, miracles happened.
* A merchant in one town stole the arm of John the Baptist, which had been preserved in a shrine. As long as he kept it in his closet, he became rich; but when somebody found it and took it away, he became a beggar.
* In the early years of the forming of the Roman Church, Christians preserved feather droppings that supposedly came from the wings of Gabriel when he came to announce the birth of Jesus to Mary.
* Pilgrim monks boasted that they had been to Jerusalem and seen the real finger of the Holy Spirit.
* The churches of the saints Cosmas and Damien at Rome exhibited a miracle-working vial of the breast milk of the virgin Mary. This became such a popular miracle worker that many churches in France had bottles of Mary's breast milk to do miracles. They even said that this wasn't necessarily the milk which the virgin used to nourish the infant, but that she, through all the ages, had continued to nourish her children in times of deadly need. Even her statues and paintings would give milk at certain times to certain saints.
* Bernard of Clairvaux said that he was rewarded for his holy life by Mary visiting him in his cell and letting his lips be moistened by the food of the heavenly child.
* Many people have stigmatizations -- the signs of the cross showing up in their hands and feet and bleeding, much like St. Francis claimed.
* One saint, Pantaleon, had drunk so much of Mary's milk in his life that when he died they cut him open and out of his veins came blood and milk. They caught it in a vial, and the blood and milk would switch places each year. When the blood was on top, the country had a bad year; and when the milk was on top, it had a good year.
* Supposed apparitions of Mary have occurred all over the world at places like Guadeloupe and Lourdes. There are great shrines of Mary everywhere.
Pretty ridiculous stuff huh? This kind of thing continues today, and are just as foolish. Paul said,
"We live by faith, not by sight."-2 Corinthians 5:7 NIV
As Sandra's title to this thread testifies, counterfeit miracles continue. Miracles were used to confirm God's Revelation. God's Revelation is finished. There is no more reason for miracles until the next appointed time in God's plan for us.
End Quote
Many of us come from various backgrounds, that held different views about spiritual gifts. What was your feeling about them before you became a right divider? Has your veiw changed since then, or is it the same?
Thoughts anyone?
ybiC,
Kab
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Christine
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #16 on:
May 03, 2008, 02:05:14 AM »
Oasis said:
Quote
Paul said,
"We live by faith, not by sight."-2 Corinthians 5:7 NIV
As Sandra's title to this thread testifies, counterfeit miracles continue. Miracles were used to confirm God's Revelation. God's Revelation is finished. There is no more reason for miracles until the next appointed time in God's plan for us.
End Quote
Many of us come from various backgrounds, that held different views about spiritual gifts. What was your feeling about them before you became a right divider? Has your veiw changed since then, or is it the same?
It has always been interesting to me that signs and wonders (including miracles) were always associated with Gods program with the Nation ISRAEL. In TODAYS economy, the only time we see signs and miracles mentioned in scripture is with the identifying word "LYING signs and wonders." Hmmmm...that would indicate that some kind of a change took place, wouldn't you think?
Of course before I knew this wonderful truth, I went and married a charismatic fella and happily found that we were expecting a child. In my first trimester, he came home from "church" one Sunday and announced to me that "God told me to divorce you." Needless to say, I tried to reason with him from the scriptures, quoting that "God hates divorce." He stuck to his guns and said that since I refused to "speak in tongues as he TOLD me to do" then I wasn't being "obedient to my husband" and that gave him the right to divorce me. It upset me so much that I miscarried, and that was blamed on me as well, for "not having enough FAITH."
Do you SEE how these beliefs lend themselves to outright TRIPE and become tools people use to "get their OWN way" and have nothing whatsoever to do with the will of God? My story is but one of many, I'm sure.
No wonder the world sees many christians as just plain "whacko!", ehhhh? No interest in doctrine, or Gods revealed will for today , or studying to know the difference...just "flesh puffing" LYING signs and wonders .....its truly one of the great deceptions that is being used by our enemy today. We are told in the Word that the devil seeks to "kill, steal and destroy", and he isn't above using "scripture" in the hands of those who do NOT rightly divide the Word of truth in order to achieve his goals.
People need to SEE the reasons for signs and wonders and WHY those things have necessarily CEASED. God is no longer working thru the signs and wonder NATION, but has SET THEM ASIDE temporarily.
I tell ya, right division simply DISPELS all these crazy ideas and brings an order that you cannot find anywhere else. Dontcha wish EVERYONE knew?
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #17 on:
May 03, 2008, 06:49:40 AM »
The lying signs and wonders are happening today as you all know. I have heard numerous times where people think they see an image of Jesus and they literally believe they can be healed by standing near that image. You've seen it on tv.
I heard recently a certain mountain in here in AZ that a coupled claimed that at a certain time when the sun hits that mountain, they think they can see an image of Jesus' face. Well, when I saw it, I guess I could just about say it looked like anyone. . .maybe Burt Reynolds? LOL!!
So they would drive by this mountain and believe it's a "sign" from God. One gentleman had something wrong with him and he thought by driving by that mountain, stopping and looking at, he would be healed.
John and I thought, wow, another thing satan uses to get people away from believing the truth. To worship creation instead of the Creator is his ploy!
How sad!!
«
Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 08:12:27 AM by Christine
»
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #18 on:
July 31, 2008, 04:35:41 PM »
Quote from: Christine on November 10, 2007, 08:08:45 PM
Does God Heal Today?
By Ron Knight
When answering the question of whether or not God is healing the sick today, we must first clarify and qualify just what the real issue is.
I just re-read this again and I loved it!!! I posted it on the lc forum I'm on to the the Ladies I talk too. They are always praying for healing that I want them to know that this is the revelation God gave to Paul for the Church.
I pray that see the truth in it!!
Hugs!!
Diana
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #19 on:
July 31, 2008, 08:17:09 PM »
One lady posted how her family members were healed. . . physical healing. How can that be explained?
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Christine
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #20 on:
July 31, 2008, 08:39:36 PM »
Quote from: NewDawn on July 31, 2008, 08:17:09 PM
One lady posted how her family members were healed. . . physical healing. How can that be explained?
People get sick and people get well. Doctors and medicine and just a healthy immune system will get most people thru alot of ailments. The final healing is when we are not limited by these human bodies which ARE susceptible to disease, and aging. NO one gets out of here ALIVE..."it is appointed unto man ONCE to die..."
Healing was part of Israels promises and program. In the dispensation of GRACE, God tells us that His grace IS sufficient for all our needs and that we are to GLORY in our infirmities (which is JUST the opposite of praying for them to be REMOVED) because it is in our weaknesses that Gods power is made manifest.
We are also told to walk by FAITH and not by sight. Thinking that God has promised to heal today is NOT walking by faith in the revealed will of God thru His appointed spokesman, who is Paul.
If God has promised to heal everyone today, then why does He tell us to "Glory in our infirmities that the power of God may be seen?"
People simply want to be "religious", but they don't want to take God at His WORD. We are to properly and accurately communicate GODS revealed will, and NOT be "wishful thinkers" who have a "zeal for God but WITHOUT knowledge."
People want things they can SEE....and God says He is operating in the realm of walking by faith in what He has said He will do....not in what He said He would do for ISRAEL, but what He said He will do for the church which is His BODY. Healing is simply NOT what God has promised to we who are His Body today.
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #21 on:
August 01, 2008, 11:07:19 AM »
You know what Christine, I'm realizing that they dont' want to know the truth. They bring up Wigglesworth and Katherine Kulm. It's just interesting that they rather believe what others say than believe what the word says for us.
diana
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Christine
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #22 on:
August 01, 2008, 12:13:29 PM »
Quote from: NewDawn on August 01, 2008, 11:07:19 AM
You know what Christine, I'm realizing that they dont' want to know the truth. They bring up Wigglesworth and Katherine Kulm. It's just interesting that they rather believe what others say than believe what the word says for us.
diana
This is Satans plan of evil. Diana, and the majority of professing Christendom has bought into it BECAUSE "the have a zeal for God but WITHOUT knowledge." This is why God tells us to STUDY to show ourselves approved unto HIM...not so that we agree with every tom , dick and harry that claims to have a "spiritual experience", but so that we can KNOW what is true and not fall for all the emotional HYPE that the world commonly accepts as REALITY.
It is sad....but if that is what they want, Satan will happily provide it for them, to their dismay when the rewards are passed out and to their shame as well.
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Lu
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #23 on:
August 01, 2008, 01:06:10 PM »
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
YFIC, Lu
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Oasis
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #24 on:
August 03, 2008, 04:00:19 AM »
Christine
Quote
No wonder the world sees many christians as just plain "whacko!", ehhhh? No interest in doctrine, or Gods revealed will for today , or studying to know the difference...just "flesh puffing" LYING signs and wonders .....its truly one of the great deceptions that is being used by our enemy today. We are told in the Word that the devil seeks to "kill, steal and destroy", and he isn't above using "scripture" in the hands of those who do NOT rightly divide the Word of truth in order to achieve his goals.
Christine, I'm finding that more and more "professing Christians" are looking at us right dividers like we're whackos. The attacks are becoming more visceral. I can't hardly witness anywhere anymore without getting attacked. It's like dancin' with a scorpion. You're dancin' along trying to keep from steppin' on his feet, then all the sudden...WHAP! That ole' stinger whips around and stabs ya in the back!
I think it's time to send in Killer Kitty to read em' from the book!
Dontcha think?
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Oasis
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #25 on:
August 03, 2008, 04:05:03 AM »
Lu
Quote
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
YFIC, Lu
Boy isn't that the Truth, Lu?
We're seeing that everywhere we look.
Makes ya want to go hide in the mountains...or Hunter Oklahoma.
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #26 on:
September 20, 2008, 06:21:46 PM »
How it can be explained when someone claims to have prayed over someone close to death and brought them back to life???
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Christine
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #27 on:
September 20, 2008, 11:31:00 PM »
Quote from: NewDawn on September 20, 2008, 06:21:46 PM
How it can be explained when someone claims to have prayed over someone close to death and brought them back to life???
It can be explained this way:
"It is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and then comes the judgement."
It simply wasn't their appointed time...because if it was, they WOULD have died!
NO ONE is getting out of this ALIVE...unless they are raptured.
'
....and dats the truth! wink
NO ones prayers are going to change the pre arranged appointment we ALL have with death. Anyone who says any different is simply "zealous for God but without Knowledge."
If a Christian knew and believed that "to die IS gain" (as we would get to finally go and BE with our Lord forever in heaven) then WHY OH WHY would we pray for them NOT to do what is appointed unto ALL men to DO?
?
Do you see the fluffed up flesh that says "I prayed, and God listened to men and didn't take them home?" PPPPPppppfffft and horse feathers.
Death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a BELIEVER....hello?
? Makes ya wonder what some Christians are thinking in their little pea brains, don't it?
?? Wink and giggle.
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NewDawn
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #28 on:
September 21, 2008, 06:33:13 AM »
Actually the person who posted that comment, sounded very puffed up, I noticed. The person who didn't die. . .not sure if they were a believer.
But this lady along with other ladies still believe that we can touch a poisonous serpent and not die!
I don't know if I can post them the truth because these posts are on a Devotional thread.
It's funny, but I'll share a grace truth in another thread I post on to these same ladies and I think alot of it goes over their head. They don't respond back.
But I know Christine, just like you said, I'll let God do the rest!!!
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Christine
•Guest•
Re: Does God Heal Today?
«
Reply #29 on:
September 21, 2008, 09:59:21 AM »
Quote from: NewDawn on September 21, 2008, 06:33:13 AM
Actually the person who posted that comment, sounded very puffed up, I noticed. The person who didn't die. . .not sure if they were a believer.
But this lady along with other ladies still believe that we can touch a poisonous serpent and not die!
I don't know if I can post them the truth because these posts are on a Devotional thread.
It's funny, but I'll share a grace truth in another thread I post on to these same ladies and I think alot of it goes over their head. They don't respond back.
But I know Christine, just like you said, I'll let God do the rest!!!
The ladies that believe they can touch a poisonous snake and not die can put their money where their mouth is. Lets see some faith in ACTION here....LOL
Sure they can touch a poisonous snake...anyone can do THAT! What the Bible was talking about was being BITTEN by one and surviving. They are being silly, and are not aware to whom the promise was made.
Ask them if they believe that all the promises in the book are THEIRS? If they say yes, then remind them that Israels promises also came with curses attached. IF they did what God commanded, they got the promise. If they did NOT, they got the curse.
Let them know that the law is the ministration of DEATH, not LIFE. They are operating under the wrong program, and they arent JEWISH and God isn't operating under Judaism today......I know its a real blow to their puffed up monumentus "FAITH", but even THAT, in their case, is misplaced.
Our faith is to be in what God has promised to we who are the church the Body of Christ. Snake handling is NOT on that list! LOL
You are running with a "religious" crowd of ladies there. The Bible says that they "have a zeal for God but WITHOUT knowledge." You keep on sharing...and praying that a "metanoia" moment will occur for one of them.
Yer doin GOOOOOOOOOOOD...attitude is the key....do NOT assume the responsibility for their salvation or spiritual education. You can only share what you KNOW, and God will do the rest. This is where we walk by faith that the Holy Spirit is indeed doing His job of convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.
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